Occupy Wall Street

[BrentMusburger]

Since printing paper money is nothing short of counterfeiting, the issuer of the international currency must always be the country with the military might to guarantee control over the system. This magnificent scheme seems the perfect system for obtaining perpetual wealth for the country that issues the de facto world currency. The one problem, however, is that such a system destroys the character of the counterfeiting nation's people — just as was the case when gold was the currency and it was obtained by conquering other nations. And this destroys the incentive to save and produce, while encouraging debt and runaway welfare.

The pressure at home to inflate the currency comes from the corporate welfare recipients, as well as those who demand handouts as compensation for their needs and perceived injuries by others. In both cases personal responsibility for one's actions is rejected.[/b]

When paper money is rejected, wealth and political stability are lost. The country then must go from living beyond its means to living beneath its means, until the economic and political systems adjust to the new rules — rules no longer written by those who ran the now defunct printing press.

[mg_]

So, let me make sure I get who we blame according to Thatsright.


First, we blame homeowners because banks were engaged it patently illegal activities, like commissions per mortgage authorized, failing to properly file securities paperwork, recklessly labeling MBS, CDOs, and other obscure derivatives as AAA rated in quality. And, it's also their fault real wages haven't risen while futures markets are running high on market speculation causing the daily life of the same people to quickly move well beyond their means based on what they're paid.

Then, it's still not their fault because these people have lobbied to effectively remove any teeth from the SEC, gut regulations, kill laws which protect low level investors.

And then finally, it's still not their fault when these guys engage in a global economics game with other countries and tweaking currencies and pushing a foreign policy that has dangerous implications for key resources, all the while playing alchemist-type monetary policy as some sort of miracle answer to stable domestic financial policy.


It's weird, it's never the fault of the guys who control and rig the system that they very much designed.

[BrentMusburger]

First, we blame homeowners because banks were engaged it patently illegal activities

It's also illegal to sign and default on mortgages.

What the banks did was wrong, but just because something is being offered does not mean you have to take it.

And, it's also their fault real wages haven't risen while futures markets are running high on market speculation causing the daily life of the same people to quickly move well beyond their means based on what they're paid.

I've said numerous times, the blame can be spread far and wide---the printing press has destroyed the charactor of the country. But more than anyone, I blame Alan "the maestro" Greenspan---he allowed the insanity of homeowner and banker alike happen.

And, it's also their fault real wages haven't risen

Americans wanted cheaper and cheaper goods. More computers, shoes, or what ever. It would have never happened if there wasn't demand for it. Now, it's a catch-22. Americans make less and less money(as a result of their insatiable demand for cheap goods)--squeezing their budgets--so they have to buy foreign goods--which leads to lower wages and further squeezing of their budget.

And then finally, it's still not their fault when these guys engage in a global economics game with other countries and tweaking currencies and pushing a foreign policy that has dangerous implications for key resources, all the while playing alchemist-type monetary policy as some sort of miracle answer to stable domestic financial policy.

Ther American people pay for the military to run rampant across the globe. The American people elect the officals who employ such policies.

Then, it's still not their fault because these people have lobbied to effectively remove any teeth from the SEC, gut regulations, kill laws which protect low level investors.

The average American thinks the SEC is only a football conference. If these small groups can get what they want, an organized group of the majority demanding what they want instead would be pushed through---the problem is getting people educated or motivated to actually do something.

It's weird, it's never the fault of the guys who control and rig the system that they very much designed.

The American people sit back and allow it to happen by ignorance and apathy.




"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." — Henry Ford


"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen.
There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the
International bankers — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgivable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." — John Danforth (R-Mo)

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and
commerce." — James A. Garfield, President of the United States

"A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world--no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." — President Woodrow Wilson

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." — SIR JOSIAH STAMP, (President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain):

...I am convinced that the agreement [Bretton Woods] will enthrone a world dictatorship of private finance more complete and terrible than and Hitlerite dream. It offers no solution of world problems, but quite blatantly sets up controls which will reduce the smaller nations to vassal states and make every government the mouthpiece and tool of International Finance. It will undermine and destroy the democratic institutions of this country - in fact as effectively as ever the Fascist forces could have done - pervert and paganise our Christian ideals; and will undoubtedly present a new menace, endangering world peace. World collaboration of private financial interests can only mean mass unemployment, slavery, misery, degradation and financial destruction. Therefore, as freedom loving Australians we should reject this infamous proposal. -- Labor Minister of Australia, Eddie Ward, during the inception of the World Bank and Bretton Woods, he gave this warning.

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

"This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson} signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." — Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A.
Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

[img]

Get a job hippies

[BrentMusburger]

The occupy movement needs to head to Washinton D.C. They shouldn't go to the White House. They shouldn't go to the Capital building. Not some stupid park, a bridge, or Wall Street.

They should be parked right outside this building and demand that money is no longer created by issuing debt against it. Then, their voices will be heard. The reason that dollar in your pocket says federal reserve NOTE is because it's a debt instrument. Demand that the Congress take their power back---which gives the people their power back.

Get tens of thousands of people occupying there, and then they will shake with fear. Trust me.

Better yet, for those too far away from Washington just head to the branch offices in Boston, New York, Philadelpia, Cleveland, Richmond, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Dallas, and San Fransico.

[mg_]

First, we blame homeowners because banks were engaged it patently illegal activities

It's also illegal to sign and default on mortgages.

Actually, it's not illegal. It's a breach of contract, which is entirely different.

What the banks did was wrong, but just because something is being offered does not mean you have to take it.

Lots of people took loans that were more than affordable when given them, lots of people lose their jobs, which had nothing to do with them. Again, banks across the country are more than capable of eating up $30 billion in the subprime mortgages they made. What banks weren't capable of doing is eating the losses in the capital markets based on them.

People in homes didn't create non-regulated capital markets. You know, the part that cost these people their jobs, which caused other probably legitimate securities to collapse too.

These guys were building flimsy self-reinforcing markets. Demand kept up for mortgages that were being turned into security packages.

I do blame these asswipses buying multiple residential properties with ARMs and grossly inflating the markets. However, again, 99% of American consumers weren't doing this.

Americans wanted cheaper and cheaper goods. More computers, shoes, or what ever. It would have never happened if there wasn't demand for it. Now, it's a catch-22. Americans make less and less money(as a result of their insatiable demand for cheap goods)--squeezing their budgets--so they have to buy foreign goods--which leads to lower wages and further squeezing of their budget.

Actually, competition from foreign places and share holder demands for greater profits had more to do with that, than the average American being at the core of this change. 2 or 3 generations of disgruntled business majors have exacted their revenge on the American worker after being forced to provide a livable wage, clean working conditions, and other hard-fought labor wins.

The American consumer only demanded cheaper products in the last 30 years because of practical necessity. Again, the top was getting wealthier, but wages down at the bottom were getting smaller or staying the same at best.

The American consumer never had a choice.

Ther American people pay for the military to run rampant across the globe. The American people elect the officals who employ such policies.

The American people have 2 shills propped up by the same corporate interests every 4 years.

The average American thinks the SEC is only a football conference. If these small groups can get what they want, an organized group of the majority demanding what they want instead would be pushed through---the problem is getting people educated or motivated to actually do something.

The problem is finding quality information. The fact our MSM looks the way it does is lol-worthy.

The American people sit back and allow it to happen by ignorance and apathy.

It's not a coincidence the last 30 years have seen a complete gutting of our public education system. Even if people are being educated it doesn't mean they've got a degree in economics to critically assess something. People have to have the skills necessary to do make the assessment. We've shortchanged public education forever.

[scorch-]

"Be happy with your lot because it could be worse."

No, it's more like Americans have become a spoiled and entitled lot that don't understand how good they had it, and still do have it. Look at how a kid grew up in the 1940's vs how a kid grew up in the 1990s'. It's night and day.

Failing to see the difference.

So, he says that the people setting interest rates don't need to be concerned with the devaluation of overpriced assets when it isn't related to an actual depression of the real economy. That would be applicable in cases of not-an-actual-depression, right? Are you implying that this economic recession/depression is imagined?

That's not at all what he was saying. He was asking (I would say warning) that if a real estate bubble was being created, and this bubble was fueling consumption that was not sustainable...."irrational exuberence" that it was going to lead to a situation like the " lost (two) decades" in Japan---speculative bubbles pop and cause major problems in the REAL economy---jobs gone, production/construction falling off a cliff, and price instability (deflationary spirals).

Not reading that at all from that quote.

"We as central bankers need not be concerned if a collapsing financial asset bubble does not threaten to impair the real economy, its production, jobs and price stability."

That says that central bankers shouldn't overreact to the collapse of overvalued financial asset markets because it won't necessarily affect the real economy. Nothing in the quote says anything about speculative market collapses affecting the real economy. I'm not saying that speculative markets don't have real effects on the economy, just that it's not exhibited in that quote.

[BrentMusburger]

"We as central bankers need not be concerned if a collapsing financial asset bubble does not threaten to impair the real economy, its production, jobs and price stability."


That says that central bankers shouldn't overreact to the collapse of overvalued financial asset markets because it won't necessarily affect the real economy. Nothing in the quote says anything about speculative market collapses affecting the real economy. I'm not saying that speculative markets don't have real effects on the economy, just that it's not exhibited in that quote.

It actually says that Central banks should not be concerned IF a collapsing financial asset bubble does not threaten the real economy....however, in 2008, a collapsing asset bubble did threaten the real economy and they were HIGHLY concerned---demonstrated by their immediate and unprecadented moves.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs ... efault.htm

So, is deflation a threat to the economic health of the United States? Not to leave you in suspense, I believe that the chance of significant deflation in the United States in the foreseeable future is extremely small, for two principal reasons. The first is the resilience and structural stability of the U.S. economy itself. Over the years, the U.S. economy has shown a remarkable ability to absorb shocks of all kinds, to recover, and to continue to grow. Flexible and efficient markets for labor and capital, an entrepreneurial tradition, and a general willingness to tolerate and even embrace technological and economic change all contribute to this resiliency. A particularly important protective factor in the current environment is the strength of our financial system: Despite the adverse shocks of the past year, our banking system remains healthy and well-regulated, and firm and household balance sheets are for the most part in good shape.

The second bulwark against deflation in the United States, and the one that will be the focus of my remarks today, is the Federal Reserve System itself. The Congress has given the Fed the responsibility of preserving price stability (among other objectives), which most definitely implies avoiding deflation as well as inflation. I am confident that the Fed would take whatever means necessary to prevent significant deflation in the United States and, moreover, that the U.S. central bank, in cooperation with other parts of the government as needed, has sufficient policy instruments to ensure that any deflation that might occur would be both mild and brief.

Of course, we must take care lest confidence become over-confidence.

Take care indeed, Mr. Bernankee.

Lots of people took loans that were more than affordable when given them, lots of people lose their jobs, which had nothing to do with them. Again, banks across the country are more than capable of eating up $30 billion in the subprime mortgages they made. What banks weren't capable of doing is eating the losses in the capital markets based on them.

People in homes didn't create non-regulated capital markets. You know, the part that cost these people their jobs, which caused other probably legitimate securities to collapse too.

These guys were building flimsy self-reinforcing markets. Demand kept up for mortgages that were being turned into security packages.

I do blame these asswipses buying multiple residential properties with ARMs and grossly inflating the markets. However, again, 99% of American consumers weren't doing this.

I'll give you this. When credit was flowing easy and stoking inflation and bubbles everywhere, the average person could have had no idea that a black hole of a deflationary spiral would slam the world and make it IMPOSSIBLE for people to pay their loans back.

Actually, it's not illegal. It's a breach of contract, which is entirely different.

Contract a. An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law

So, you sign a peice of paper stating that you will pay the principle plus interest for the entirety of the loan. Defaulting on this obligation is............

[scorch-]

Actually, it's not illegal. It's a breach of contract, which is entirely different.

Contract a. An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law

So, you sign a peice of paper stating that you will pay the principle plus interest for the entirety of the loan. Defaulting on this obligation is.......

Illegal refers most specifically to violations of statutes or, in organized athletics, codified rules.

Illegality is defined by law. A contract is not a law. A contract is enforceable by law, meaning that there are codified rules guiding recovery and compensation for a breach of contract. The actions which constitute a breach of contract are not, generally, violations of the codified statutes of law.

Defaulting on a mortgage is not illegal unless it is defined as an offense by law.

[BrentMusburger]

Actually, it's not illegal. It's a breach of contract, which is entirely different.

Contract a. An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law

So, you sign a peice of paper stating that you will pay the principle plus interest for the entirety of the loan. Defaulting on this obligation is.......

Illegal refers most specifically to violations of statutes or, in organized athletics, codified rules.

Illegality is defined by law. A contract is not a law. A contract is enforceable by law, meaning that there are codified rules guiding recovery and compensation for a breach of contract. The actions which constitute a breach of contract are not, generally, violations of the codified statutes of law.

Defaulting on a mortgage is not illegal unless it is defined as an offense by law.

Perhaps I should put it another way....I forgot I'm dealing with lawyers who'll crucify one word.

defaulting on a mortgage isn't smart..?
advisable?
morally acceptable?

The point is, it's a decision (whether intentional or not) that isn't acceptable. It's not "ok".