Occupy Wall Street

[BrentMusburger]

ending the government's favoritism to those companies who will right them the biggest check

Let's not pretend this is limited to the big bad corporations. Mkay?

Did I pretend such?

Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

What about the millions and millions of independent decisions to live well beyond your means for decades? Living beyond your means eventually FORCES you to live under them. Blaming a few people in government or banking for this catastrophy that has happened (and in my opinion is about to get MUCH worse) is bordering on absurd.

I didn't realize I don't assign any blame to irresponsible individuals.

I just think the entire blame government and blame bankers idea is pathetic. People need to look in the god damned mirror.


I'll put it as blunt as possible. I think many in the movement aren't successful because of their attitude in life. Period.

If you're the best, prove it. How many great football players who are elite athletes are sitting around not being given a chance? The best rise to the top. Blaming others for where you aren't or can't get to gets tiring.

[kirk]

I just think the entire blame government and blame bankers idea is pathetic. People need to look in the god damned mirror.

I'll put it as blunt as possible. I think many in the movement aren't successful because of their attitude in life. Period.

If you're the best, prove it. How many great football players who are elite athletes are sitting around not being given a chance? The best rise to the top. Blaming others for where you aren't or can't get to gets tiring.

I don't want to erase someone's debt because he/she can't find a job for picking a major that isn't marketable. At the same time, I don't think someone should be financially hindered forever because he/she majored in history.

[BrentMusburger]

At the same time, I don't think someone should be financially hindered forever because he/she majored in history.

When you're in college, you're an adult. College above all, teaches you how to think, learn, and research. You're responsible for your decision. Perhaps these "highly" educated folks aren't as educated as they think. I can see why they "demand" a refund.

If it's financial reward they seek, then go after engineering or other professional feilds. There's no illusion of financial windfalls before or during an history or art program. It's only after, once the full gravity of their actions becomes apparent, that they want out.

Well, that's too bad. You signed a contract on those loans. And if you know anything about the loans, they have you by the balls with similar powers as the IRS. As they should. Otherwise, I could become an engineer and default. Guess what? I still have the skills of an engineer and boosted my earning potential.


It's like if I go into a casino. I'm risking large amounts of my cash. While I'm still playing, everything is great. Hey, I might even win big. Well, eventually I lose it all. I demand my money back because I'm burdened financially from my poor decisions. This negative outcome is unfair. Bullshit. There were no illusions. I knew the whole time (and if I didn't it's because I'm naive or incapable of performing research at any point during my FOUR YEARS) the risks of the game I was playing. When it didn't work out great, suddenly I "deserve" to get off scott free.

[kirk]

When you're in college, you're an adult. College above all, teaches you how to think, learn, and research. You're responsible for your decision. Perhaps these "highly" educated folks aren't as educated as they think. I can see why they "demand" a refund.

If it's financial reward they seek, then go after engineering or other professional feilds. There's no illusion of financial windfalls before or during an history or art program. It's only after, once the full gravity of their actions becomes apparent, that they want out.

Well, that's too bad. You signed a contract on those loans. And if you know anything about the loans, they have you by the balls with similar powers as the IRS. As they should. Otherwise, I could become an engineering and default. Guess what? I still have the skills of an engineer and boosted my earning potential.

Again, I'm not suggesting a refund. And you think you're truly an adult at 17-18 when you're making the decision to go to school? In the way you are describing them.

Simply saying our system shouldn't force someone who pursues a degree in what they love to be in debt for 50 years. That's the sign of a shitty system.

[BrentMusburger]

That's the sign of a shitty system.

Who was holding the gun to their head semester after semester when you had to sign off on the loan payments?

And you think you're truly an adult at 17-18 when you're making the decision to go to school? In the way you are describing them.

Age is just a number. There's people who are 30 who aren't "adults". There's people who are 18 that are. If people can have the responsibility to fight and die in war or vote for the president, than they can be responsible for their financial decisions.

Again, the evidence is stacked up miles high well before they start their program. If they refuse to see it, or research it, well....that's life. You're going to have to deal with the reprecussions.

And if you're going to say that they're still kids, then maybe their coddling parents need to grab little Billy by the ear and say "how many people do you know who work in art or history?".

[BrentMusburger]

Simply saying our system shouldn't force someone who pursues a degree in what they love to be in debt for 50 years.

So what the hell do you want?

First of all, the system forces no one to do anything.

Second of all, college is a large expense. If you don't look at it as an investment and choose something that will pay off as such, then I'm not sure what outcome we should expect?

Should little Billy, who is apparently incapable of research or critical thinking, (why is he in college again?) be able to just live off the State and have his fun studying art....just because he wants to? Well gee, it's that just great! What a magical fun fantasy world. Somewhere in here I'd throw out a cold "grow up and get in reality".

If it's money he seeks, seek a professional feild. If it's love and fun....well either be in a position where you don't need to make your investment pay off....or deal with the negative results of YOUR choices.

[unpro]

didnt i address this earlier and actually get agreement from at least 1 other person on this thread regarding school costs?

[gwolf_]

Just out of curiosity Brent Musburger what do you do?

[kirk]

Can't talk to someone who believes the world is that simple.

You're implying a **** kid, someone who is 17-18, is capable of fully understanding the implications of his/her actions when he/she goes to college and has loans. I agree said kid should take responsibility for his/her decisions, but does taking responsibility for those actions mean being stuck in debt for LIFE? That's **** stupid. Let's actively discourage the pursuit of knowledge. STRONG ideal there.

What the hell does that tell you about our society? Education should be affordable to EVERYONE. Don't justify your views with how things are; I'm telling you how they should be. So the whole move of shrugging and saying, "that's the way it is!" doesn't really apply.

[gwolf_]

Can't talk to someone who believes the world is that simple.

You're implying a **** kid, someone who is 17-18, is capable of fully understanding the implications of his/her actions when he/she goes to college and has loans. I agree said kid should take responsibility for his/her decisions, but does taking responsibility for those actions mean being stuck in debt for LIFE? That's **** stupid. Let's actively discourage the pursuit of knowledge. STRONG ideal there.

What the hell does that tell you about our society? Education should be affordable to EVERYONE. Don't justify your views with how things are; I'm telling you how they should be. So the whole move of shrugging and saying, "that's the way it is!" doesn't really apply.

The kid is not, the parents should help the kid. A lot of what Musburger is saying is true its just things that we don't want to hear. I was lucky to be the youngest in my family. I saw my brother go to college, graduate phi beta kappa with a liberal arts degree and not be able to find a job other than working front desk at a hotel. He then went to law school..

When I started college I began as a liberal arts major but quickly started to realize it wasn't going to get me a job when i graduated. I then changed my major to accounting and went on to get a masters in it as well. I graduated in July and almost everyone who graduated from my class has a job or is signed up for a job(I don't start until January so I get to play DOD A LOT while I take my cpa exams LOL)

On the same token I have many friends who majored in liberal arts who are just as smart as I am if not smarter, and just as good of work ethics if not better struggling to find work. Its shitty out there, you gotta protect yourself.