Nineteen Eleven

scorch- wrote:I still don't understand how solitude is a better map than emmanuel. If someone can explain to me how a sniper and grenades getting 80% of the kills on a map make it good, maybe I can explain to you why you're bad.

You guys use grenades? Lol dorks

scorch- wrote:I still don't understand how solitude is a better map than emmanuel. If someone can explain to me how a sniper and grenades getting 80% of the kills on a map make it good, maybe I can explain to you why you're bad.

Good point.

scorch- wrote:I still don't understand how solitude is a better map than emmanuel. If someone can explain to me how a sniper and grenades getting 80% of the kills on a map make it good, maybe I can explain to you why you're bad.

And this is coming from a guy who knows a thing or two about dod.

toxinatoR wrote:

scorch- wrote:I still don't understand how solitude is a better map than emmanuel. If someone can explain to me how a sniper and grenades getting 80% of the kills on a map make it good, maybe I can explain to you why you're bad.

And this is coming from a guy who knows a thing or two about dod.

scorch- wrote:I still don't understand how solitude is a better map than emmanuel. If someone can explain to me how a sniper and grenades getting 80% of the kills on a map make it good, maybe I can explain to you why you're bad.

Emmanuel is worse than solitude because there is roughly 6 spots to enter mid from. All of those connectors are clumsy and don't even help the players in mid actually control mid. Long is probably the only semi-decent route on the map and mountain is **** awful. Lastly, it feels like anytime you push a side/route on that map, you're walking into a **** death trap which has 20 different spots that people can peek you from. It's just terribly constructed and the fact that people still don't think its the worse league map ever played blows my **** mind. The versions before this one were better than the one played this week.

rymoz wrote: Emmanuel is worse than solitude because there is roughly 6 spots to enter mid from. All of those connectors are clumsy and don't even help the players in mid actually control mid. Long is probably the only semi-decent route on the map and mountain is **** awful. Lastly, it feels like anytime you push a side/route on that map, you're walking into a **** death trap which has 20 different spots that people can peek you from. It's just terribly constructed and the fact that people still don't think its the worse league map ever played blows my **** mind. The versions before this one were better than the one played this week.

I can agree with mid having shitty connectors, but it is in no way worse than playing merderet, lennon (in 12 mans), or chemille (against MGs or camping ****). There are just some maps that have their moments and some that are just shitty. I feel like this one is right in between. I like some aspects of long, I like some aspects of mountain, but I have to say running middle as the last man alive is one of the worst jobs you can have. I think some of the choke points need some work but I wouldn't say it is worse than some other maps that we play on a regular basis.

I have to agree with Scorch on this one. To be successful on Solitude you don't have to be a good player or smarter than your opponent, you don't even need the greatest team work. You could win a match on Solitude with a pretty basic system: Nade over church, Wait in a dark spot or prone behind something, Shoot in back, Move up, Prone, Shoot in Back, Nade, Spawn Camp, and then repeat. I understand anyone could follow a system like that on any map but it is more noticeable on Solitude. You honestly don't need as much skill on Solitude as you would on Railroad or Harrington.

See, the thing I consider to be the only good part of the map (the fact that spawn camping is really **** hard) is something that you dislike about the map.

Bad parts about the map... spawns are too close to the first flags. It makes full caps more random... the difference between a full cap or dying to 5 people on a spawn ramp can be whether a kill on the other side of the map happened 1 sec before or after the previous spawn cycle.

The middle of the map is awful. The lofts are terribly constructed, there's no way to peek without exposing yourself to like 2-3 other spots. There's no real place to snipe from besides the lofts (which, as pointed out, are horrible). There is no cover in the middle or along the sides. The mid connector is cramped, and the doorway makes flanking routes from one that you have won difficult (to say the least). Same with the ladder. You can win one route, but if you want to help to/from middle you have to make so much noise that Helen Keller would feel you coming.

The mountain route is okay... but it feels very axis sided. I suppose it's the same reason that harrington mountain is allies-sided. On initial, there is going to be a meeting around where both players can get to in the middle of the route. When axis win this battle, they get to control the ladder connecting middle and possibly pressure the allied first. When the allies win this battle, they get to get closer to the axis first flag, where, if they peek, they will likely get destroyed by 3 people respawning. Or maybe no one will respawn for another 8 seconds. You never know.

I didn't play long/cow at all this week. It looks easy on both sides. I'm not sure what went on there but there's basically no way to flank anywhere from that route unless you kill the other long team twice, and then kill their respawning mid team as well. There needs to be connections between the routes to make the maps more than just 2v2x3 w/ spawncamping being the main way of helping other routes.

Also, allied loft+mid-connector makes flanking from mountain up a ladder too difficult, and the railing spot at garden makes flanking mountain from middle too difficult. It's like the mapmaker said "Hey, here's some flanks..." and then booby-trapped them for fun. Great work.

All that being said, solitude suffers from the exact same problems AND on top of that makes the primary battle mode between middle and garden grenades and gives both snipers spots that are almost impossible to die in when used properly.

I think the map rewards faster playing teams. If you stay aggressive then you will eventually push your way to the spawn and capout. Also having different areas to access mid makes the middle teams watch all around them, forcing them to play aggressive and keep moving.

I think it's an extremely fun map and it's a nice switch up from the same old maps that have been played for nearly a decade.

***my opinion is also based off of about 2 or 3 scrims on the map. So maybe I was just playing awful teams.

rymoz wrote:

scorch- wrote:I still don't understand how solitude is a better map than emmanuel. If someone can explain to me how a sniper and grenades getting 80% of the kills on a map make it good, maybe I can explain to you why you're bad.

Emmanuel is worse than solitude because there is roughly 6 spots to enter mid from. All of those connectors are clumsy and don't even help the players in mid actually control mid. Long is probably the only semi-decent route on the map and mountain is **** awful. Lastly, it feels like anytime you push a side/route on that map, you're walking into a **** death trap which has 20 different spots that people can peek you from. It's just terribly constructed and the fact that people still don't think its the worse league map ever played blows my **** mind. The versions before this one were better than the one played this week.

I, respectfully, totally disagree with you. Mid may be a pain to cap because there are really many ways to not even look but to nade break as well but you have to agree that the map is pretty much balanced between sides and this is something we don't have in maps like lennon_b2 or even with harrington. Emmanuel isn't definitely the holy grail (which jared will say that is anzio) of the DoD maps, and lerf's intention wasn't to please all tastes for maps, but you have to agree that is a legit, fast paced map, which every route is connected with its closest routes, that achieved what MANY other custom maps that are actually playable as well (aleutian, muhle_b2, sherman and even solitude) couldn't get through a little spam time. I'm pretty much happy that the map turned out the way it did (glad that long is actually good because I bothered lerf the most for him keeping up the apartments area) upon its finally release and given that I not only followed but tested all versions released ever since, in my humble, this version is the best so far.

Haters gonna hate, that's all.

alot of pressure from both ways when your stuck at the 1 and 2 trying to hold your flags when the other team has mid that's for sure.

btw when is this hsb vs 3h shit going down i want to see that