Nineteen Eleven

unpro wrote:ok, so whats the possible solution. where are the ideas to change things. what is this protest saying outside of "they have money and we dont, **** them".

until you have a coherent basis for the protest outside of bitching about people having money you dont have, then the protest is **** stupid.

we all know the system is ****. having a **** plan, or atleast ideas to the point, is kind of needed to induce any sort of change. without either you are basically allowing the repeat of the current issues stemming from the housing market bust to repeat in another cycle caused by this behavior and knee jerk reactionary laws or policies to placate the masses.

main point - i never said i didnt think the system was ****, but this incoherent rambling protest with no real goal or plan is pointless and will most likely only make things worse.

What we are trying to say is that you have totally misconceived the whole thing based on what I can only make the assumption is preconceived notions and ego-driven subjective misrepresentations.

From your perspective, you feel the movement is protesting that "they have money and we dont, **** them".

This, OBJECTIVELY, is just not true. AT ALL.

This is something you have manufactured subjectively from your own point of view (ego).

The POINT of the movement, the ENTIRE GOAL, is to raise the awareness of the issue that 1% of the population controls an exponentially disproportionate amount of the resources, and the mechanisms that control them, by completely GAMING THE SYSTEM in their favor.

That's all protests do, that's all that they have ever done.

so they are protesting something everyone knows happens, with no plan or idea to change these issues or the system.

without having a plan, or idea, or an agenda to push then you will end up with legislation that on the surface looks good, but truly changes nothing or makes matters worse. thats all im saying. protest it fine, i agree the system is **** and needs changing, but to protest with no goal or idea as to what you want changed is pointless and probably harmful to the very protest you are making.

the protests are already losing support and being shut down, mainly because they have nothing to rally behind and nothing to garner massive public support from. people saying "i agree with the fact that the system is ****" arent going to be willing to actively support a movement with no goal or plan.

so yea, still stupid.

unpro wrote:so they are protesting something everyone knows happens, with no plan or idea to change these issues or the system.

without having a plan, or idea, or an agenda to push then you will end up with legislation that on the surface looks good, but truly changes nothing or makes matters worse. thats all im saying. protest it fine, i agree the system is **** and needs changing, but to protest with no goal or idea as to what you want changed is pointless and probably harmful to the very protest you are making.

the protests are already losing support and being shut down, mainly because they have nothing to rally behind and nothing to garner massive public support from. people saying "i agree with the fact that the system is ****" arent going to be willing to actively support a movement with no goal or plan.

so yea, still stupid.

Of course there are proposals and ideas that have been proposed. Like any movement there are loads of different ideas that have been tossed around. But there are still core ideals which everyone can agree on. Such as, eradicating lobbying in the current form that is rampant and destructive in America. Or holding the people responsible for the past economic meltdown - no convictions, investigations, etc. have been conducted thus far, while unemployment among honest, hard-working Americans soar. Throw an African-American in prison for 15 years for stealing $100 (not joking), but zero investigation into the men who knowingly **** our economy, and then received bonuses.

Those two come to mind immediately.

If you actually want to learn, feel free to hear it from this Columbia professor who visited Wall Street:



You're a pawn standing up for those who exploit you. It's sad to see you so against a movement that is, at very least, trying to bring to light issues that need to be in the public limelight.

unpro wrote:so they are protesting something everyone knows happens, with no plan or idea to change these issues or the system.

Not true. Once again, you are basing this on a total leap in logic that you have made from your own perspective (ego).

unpro wrote: without having a plan, or idea, or an agenda to push then you will end up with legislation that on the surface looks good, but truly changes nothing or makes matters worse. thats all im saying. protest it fine, i agree the system is **** and needs changing, but to protest with no goal or idea as to what you want changed is pointless and probably harmful to the very protest you are making.

Agenda's are for political or cultural campaigns. This is not one of those, yet. Protests are ideological public statements, in this case, for the purpose of social-awareness (often in hopes of inspiring political or cultural campaigns).

unpro wrote: the protests are already losing support and being shut down, mainly because they have nothing to rally behind and nothing to garner massive public support from. people saying "i agree with the fact that the system is ****" arent going to be willing to actively support a movement with no goal or plan.

This just isn't **** true. You are consistently making subjective, opinion based reactions to objective arguments.

Stop it.

For a perspective on my ego, there is plenty that you are saying that I would most often agree with. For one, I'm not wasting any of my time protesting. I'm lucky and have a job that puts me on the front lines of such fights. As counter-intuitive as protesting is for someone like me, it's not for people who don't have the access I do. And the more people that they reach, the easier my job (actually changing shit) is.

unpro wrote: so yea, still stupid.

Well argued....

Fact is, unpro gets his information from sources that are mutually exclusive to Alex's or Sears's, and nobody is going to concede anything. All anyone does is get more and more entrenched in his preexisting opinions.

However, I looked up the numbers, and the Iraq War protests were many, many times larger than the OWS protests

Rob wrote:Fact is, unpro gets his information from sources that are mutually exclusive to Alex's or Sears's, and nobody is going to concede anything. All anyone does is get more and more entrenched in his preexisting opinions.

However, I looked up the numbers, and the Iraq War protests were many, many times larger than the OWS protests

I'd be surprised - are you counting the movement solely on Wall Street, or the participation that has occurred among dozens of other cities in the United States and in Europe, too?

Just for the record, I'm not saying it's not possible or even plausible. I'd simply be surprised as I know this movement has spread across the country to other cities and other countries.

i get info from a variety of sources.

ill watch the vid later, but from the little bit i listened to it basically sounds like hes regurgitating what libertarians have been saying for years. that might change past the few minutes i listened.

Yeah I know you do. Everyone says that and they're not lying.

Rob wrote:Fact is, unpro gets his information from sources that are mutually exclusive to Alex's or Sears's, and nobody is going to concede anything. All anyone does is get more and more entrenched in his preexisting opinions.

However, I looked up the numbers, and the Iraq War protests were many, many times larger than the OWS protests

Oh I agree with you on that front. It just frustrates me (because of my ego) when people are dismissive to something that is actually a good thing because they don't feel special from it. I think that's a demon we would all be best served getting over right quick.

I'm not trying to win anything, I just like pointing shit out in hopes that maybe some people think different.

You won't succeed when it comes to unpro though. I've already gone over climate change with him. HOPELESS.