Nineteen Eleven

I have mixed feelings on the map, but think that people who are going as far as trying to play other maps are way out of line. I wasn't really fond of the earlier versions of emmanuel, and liked this one the best, but that still doesn't mean i love the map. There's definitely a lot of room for improvement, but to say its the worst map in competitive dod history is laughable at best.

One of the things i like the most about it is the fact that you can't "play like a zombie." What I mean by this is, that when you are in a 12 man or late night scrim, people are like, "Let's play harrington, you don't have to think too much." And what they mean by this is they can do the same exact thing every spawn, and play like zombies doing the same thing over and over again. You really can't do that on this map because of all the connecters and flanking. Having to use your brain is a positive, not a negative.

I do think it needs to be slowed down a bit. Whether that means making the map slightly bigger, or taking the double out of middle and placing 2 doubles on long and lower mountain, or something to increase teamwork a bit. I scrimmed mountain all week long as a heavy, and while racking up the kills was nice, it really wasn't that fun. Some of the angles and things you can use need fixed. However, i rifled in my match and long plays great, in my opinion. Its not that far off.

doing things we don't like occasionally is good for us. it takes a lot of teamwork and focus to adapt to a strange new map that most people don't like.

Long is dumb. If you're allies you got 2 ways to go, either you go lower and get naded, or you go upper and get naded from apps. As axis you either kill someone with a nade and can push, or you get naded. So fun.

Even when I've done bad on this map I haven't felt like it was the maps fault for being bad. The only route I didn't like much was middle, and even that I have a lot of fun playing. You just really need to have map control to cap middle usually or a smart player is probably going to be able to get a nade on you, or just peek you.

And mountain is a lot of fun.

bingo joel. Plus I feel like if you can push the flanks, you can usually get behind mid, which allows your teammates to cap. I think people just need to play it more and adapt strats. Like when harrington first came out people used to send 2-2-2 allies. Then once people learned the map a little more, they started occasionally sending 3 mid to cap it. I'm sure people will eventually find advantages in the map that will make it a lot more fun.

bewton wrote:bingo joel. Plus I feel like if you can push the flanks, you can usually get behind mid, which allows your teammates to cap. I think people just need to play it more and adapt strats. Like when harrington first came out people used to send 2-2-2 allies. Then once people learned the map a little more, they started occasionally sending 3 mid to cap it. I'm sure people will eventually find advantages in the map that will make it a lot more fun.

This right here. I honestly don't think its been played enough as a rotation map to really garner a true opinion. I found myself peeking mid when Meekrab was pushed up to the opposing teams 2nd flag, long route that is, more as we adapted to the map. Snagged a few kills here and there and helped the mid team gain control. When Meekrab died, simply stopped and checked my route until he respawned. We traded back and forth during the 2nd round on Axis, and it really helped us in the end when we had a come from behind win. I ended up DCing for about 3-4 min on Axis, and they already had an 18 point lead from the first half, and on top of that capped out while I was DC'd putting us even further behind.

The end of the match was quite exciting, simply because we were all adjusting our routes and play style individually, and the end result was very entertaining.

bewton wrote:I think the map rewards faster playing teams. If you stay aggressive then you will eventually push your way to the spawn and capout. Also having different areas to access mid makes the middle teams watch all around them, forcing them to play aggressive and keep moving.

I think it's an extremely fun map and it's a nice switch up from the same old maps that have been played for nearly a decade.

***my opinion is also based off of about 2 or 3 scrims on the map. So maybe I was just playing awful teams.

I 100% agree with bewty


btw, getting back to the iwa vs sunnyville match, this was one of the most action paced matches Ive played in a LONG LONG time. I dunno if it was the 2 teams playing with an even level of skill or what, but our match was fast and intense. I know both teams didn't know who was going to win and it came down to the wire. Overall I enjoy the map, with a few tweaks id put up against alot of the other great maps.

scorch- wrote:See, the thing I consider to be the only good part of the map (the fact that spawn camping is really **** hard) is something that you dislike about the map.

My issue isn't that I can't spawn camp. I think the choke points are in the wrong places. I also think the map has lots of awkward angles, hallways, corners (ie. allies/axis lofts, midhouse, axis connector, ladder, lower part of mountain).

cassinoroyale wrote:you have to agree that the map is pretty much balanced between sides and this is something we don't have in maps like lennon_b2 or even with harrington.

It doesn't matter if a map is balanced. Both teams play each side once. The most popular and played cs maps are all incredibly one-sided (for the most part) so that's not the issue.

sloth wrote:doing things we don't like occasionally is good for us. it takes a lot of teamwork and focus to adapt to a strange new map that most people don't like.

I'm definitely not against new maps or changes. I appreciate the time and effort lerf put into making this map and I agree that we should try and play new maps, but I just feel that this new version of emmanuel is one of the worst league maps I've ever played and should be fixed or thrown out.

rymoz wrote:

scorch- wrote:I still don't understand how solitude is a better map than emmanuel. If someone can explain to me how a sniper and grenades getting 80% of the kills on a map make it good, maybe I can explain to you why you're bad.

Emmanuel is worse than solitude because there is roughly 6 spots to enter mid from. All of those connectors are clumsy and don't even help the players in mid actually control mid. Long is probably the only semi-decent route on the map and mountain is **** awful. Lastly, it feels like anytime you push a side/route on that map, you're walking into a **** death trap which has 20 different spots that people can peek you from. It's just terribly constructed and the fact that people still don't think its the worse league map ever played blows my **** mind. The versions before this one were better than the one played this week.

I agree with Julez for the most part. Long is decent and nowhere near as retarded as mid/mountain. Mid does have way to many ways to get to it, it's like impossible to cover it. My big problem with mid is the sniper lofts, it just feels like you can't see shit in mid unless 90% of your body is showing. I think the lofts in the last version were good, even if you just took out the allies-long connector thing to allies loft would of been fine, now they are just retarded. Mountain is a cluster ****, there is 500 camping spots and 500 different ways to get around.

I know everybody wants to play news maps etc, etc. But, what about Aleutian, Muhle? them maps aren't that bad and they were barely played.

I feel like emmanuel would be a better map if everything was like 10% bigger. The cow-mid connector especially is stupidly cramped and hard to use.